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# Issue 6606

Starred by 253 users

Status: Available issue 152430 ---- Blink>Layout ---- 2017-09-30 All 3 Feature

Blocked on: View detail

Blocking:
issue 463348

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# Missing MathML implementation

Reported by krivan.b...@gmail.com, Jan 17 2009 Back to list

### Issue description

Chrome Version       : 2.0.157.2
URL                  : http://www.w3.org/Math/testsuite/mml2-
testsuite/TortureTests/Complexity/complex1.xml
Other browsers tested:
Firefox 3: OK
IE 7: OK (MathPlayer)

What steps will reproduce the problem?
1. Open a page with MathML content

What is the expected result?
You should see the correct MathML rendering.

You see just a few symbol without correct rendering.


 Labels: -Area-Misc Area-WebKit Webkit-Specific Report-to-Webkit Status: Untriaged
Safari 3.2: not ok


 Labels: -Report-to-Webkit Reported-to-Webkit Status: Upstream
Bug filed upstream : https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24127

Webkit  bug 24127  has been duplicated to https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3251

 Issue 9230  has been merged into this issue.

This is a bug for almost 4 years in webkit. Can't you, chromium guys, implement this?
Because I don't think they're really working on this @ webkit. And I think it's a
really needed feature in Chromium.

Reading the thread @ bugs.wekbit.org, we could do something like this: mathml to svg.
And SVG could be displayed correctly.


 Labels: -Type-Bug Type-Feature Mstone-X
I'm using Chromium to use Google Wave preview (it feels faster and more stable than
with firefox). But I started using Google wave for Collaborate on Math stuff. There is
nice robots there for rendering LaTeX as mathML. Too bad the MathML rendering is so
poor on Chromium....

 Status: ExternalDependency
This is now enabled in WebKit, should be turned on in Chromium builds as well.

 Status: Untriaged
Considering this no longer is dependent on an external dependency, seeing WebKit enabled it by default, I'm removing the label and moving this back to untriaged.

The following thread on chromium-dev is relevant to this issue:


Opera 11 is OK.

Well, to be honest, Opera's MathML implementation is quite broken and cannot handle diacritics properly.  It is unsuitable for real world applications (tried to use it for my class notes, for which IE/MathPlayer & Firefox worked fine)

 Status: Available
 Issue 84491  has been merged into this issue.

 Cc: tmc...@chromium.org Labels: Review-Security
Given that Safari 5.1 now supports MathML, I believe we should look into implementing this. Allegedly one of the reasons it hasn't been already is that it has not had a security audit. Marked it for review.

 Cc: jsc...@chromium.org
 Labels: -Review-Security
@rschoen - If someone wants to take ownership of landing MathML then they can file a feature metabug and work through any changes needed to land it (including what I would anticipate to be a large number of security crashes). However, unless someone antes up for the work it's not going to happen on its own.


### Comment 19 Deleted

 Blocking: 22554
So this bug seems to be just about enabling MathML parsing from comment 9 onward, but for displaying MathML you might – depending on the platform targeted – also need to think about font support, i.e. about whether you will ship with the STIX/XITS fonts on e.g. Windows (BTW which are now included in OS X 10.7 because of Safari's MathML support I would guess).

 Issue 115809  has been merged into this issue.

It's 2012 not 1999.

Chrome 20.0.1105.0 (Official Build 132547) dev fails the Mozilla MathML test (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mathml/demo/texvsmml.html)

I cannot believe this.

Google accepts 2 projects for the Google Summer of Code 2012 for improving MathML support in Firefox (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla_MathML_Project)
but still does'nt implement MathML at all in their own Browser Chrome.


### Comment 25 Deleted

I explained on comment #17 what's preventing MathML from being enabled. Simply put, someone needs to take ownership of the feature and get it to a state where it's demonstrated stable and safe enough to ship.

Concerning comment #17, does the remark about potentially "a large number of security crashes" still have any validity whatsoever? Does Apple do that much less testing of the code they use than Google? Not to mention that the MathML code is out in open  for a year now.

Are you volunteering and do you have the necessary expertise to do the work? If not, I don't see that your comments are contributing anything useful at this stage. We have an obligation to our users to meet a minimum bar before enabling a feature. No amount of complaining on this bug is a substitute for meeting that obligation.

FYI, Dave Barton is working on Webkit's MathML implementation and is concentrating his effort on fixing the most important bugs that could prevent passing security review. People who are really interested in seeing this bug fixed should follow his work on Webkit's bugzilla and possibly help him.

about comment 24: the two MathML projects mentioned were just proposals from Mozilla. Finally one student was accepted (for a different MathML project).

 Issue 61672  has been merged into this issue.

 Blocking: -chromium:22554
 Mergedinto: 152430 Status: Duplicate
Marking as duplicate of newer  Issue 152430

 Labels: -Area-WebKit Cr-Content
 Components: -Blink Blink>Layout Labels: -Reported-to-Webkit -Pri-2 -Mstone-X mstone-X Reported-To-WebKit Pri-3 Status: Available
Reopen.   Issue 152430  isn't a feature request.


Google, please make an effort to fix this.



### Comment 37 Deleted

The previously heavily criticized Webkit implementation has improved quite a lot since 2013: https://webkit.org/blog/6803/improvements-in-mathml-rendering/

Thanks goes out to Frédéric Wang and the other people working on it or arguing for it, I hope Blink will be their next target (and once Blink has MathML, has Microsoft will have to follow suit now that they made it an official stance that Edge has to be on-par with Chrome + they probably need it for better EPUB support).

 Blocking: 463348
Please add this! This would revolutionize my daily mathematical life on the Internet!

 Cc: -jsc...@chromium.org
I join Chrome users in urging Google to advance MathML technology in order to promote universal access to scientific knowledge. Thank you.

Please "star" this issue to vote for it, rather than leaving a comment. The star button is located at the top of the page, next to the "Issue" text.

As mentioned, the current WebKit MathML implementation is vastly different from the one which was removed from Blink circa 2013. For an overview of the changes, see

http://frederic-wang.fr/mathml-refactoring-in-webkit.html
http://frederic-wang.fr/mathml-improvements-in-webkit.html

Hopefully, this refactoring addresses the technical objections to the previous MathML implementation.

On the user-experience side, it cannot be emphasized enough that the proposed "alternative" to a native MathML implementation (namely MathJax) provides a distinctly-inferior user experience.

 Cc: jsc...@chromium.org ojan@chromium.org
Ojan/Justin, thoughts on this bug after #44? Predictability program has set an OKR to gain traction on the top 50 starred bugs this quarter: either by closing them, stating what milestone the change will ship, or setting a NextAction date so that we know when to check back in.

 Cc: e...@chromium.org ikilpatrick@chromium.org dk...@chromium.org
eae/ikilpatrick/dknox are the best people to express opinions on this now.

eae@, ikilpatrick@, dknox@, what are your thoughts here? Please note that this is the #8 top starred issue in Blink.

It is something that we'd like to support eventually but only if it can be done in a maintainable and secure way.

#48 My view is that one can very close with plain CSS -- no javascript -- and it can only get better as CSS is developed further.  Implementation of CSS flexible boxes added quite a lot of value that, I think, was not available in 2011-2012.  In my talk at TUG 2014 I showed examples, e.g.,
http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/presentations/tug2014/gamma-lm.xml
of math rendering using only CSS (actually, a different XML markup, but Frederic Wang has written corresponding CSS for MathML). In the write-up of the talk for Tugboat I made comments about my wishes for the development of CSS.  Those ideas are NOT specific to the needs of math.
For more: http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/presentations/tug2014/


#49 how accessible is that XML? We rely on MathML for accessible (for users with disabilities using assistive tech) math, so students using AT are currently restricted to supporting browsers or whoever can run MathJax (which sometimes hangs/crashes pages with many complex equations (esp on phones) and does not accurately display some types of very complex equations, resulting in us rendering images of math (which don't scale) with a hidden MathML fallback as a sort of alt text).
I like the idea of being able to turn LaTeX into MathML/whatever and styled with CSS, so long as the whatever can read sensibly to screen readers and scales nicely with magnification. I don't think I can hope for speech support :(
The more browsers support math, the more choice our end-users have in which browser they can use to consume our content.

The suggestion to drop MathML has also surfaced on the Firefox dev forum. See this post which lists some good reasons to keep it/re-enable it.


#51 Misleading.  That thread about firefox has not been touched since May 2013.  Certainly in #49 I did NOT suggest dropping MathML.

#50  "how accessible is that XML?"

AFAIK nothing has been done to tie it to access-related software.  The CSS provided with the example is entirely visual.  The idea with LaTeX profiles,
http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/presentations/Tug2010/, is that if a community with specific access concerns -- or other specialized concerns -- has its own ideal XML document type, it should be possible to provide reliable automatic translation from a LaTeX profile to that XML document type.

Personally, I think supporting a standard makes sense from an access point
of view, because then screen readers only have a single standard to
implement, and don't have to work around workarounds that people have put
in place.

While rendering MathML via CSS might work, it isn't the same as native
support. It also requires that one learns another library or language, or
use sometimes complicated hack to get it to do what you want. Supporting a
standard simplified the process and lowers the barrier to entry, whilst
simultaneously making sure that mathematical equations can be rendered
correctly in multiple places - without having to convert from one format to
another.

On 15 Feb 2017 3:18 am, "gel… via monorail" <monorail+v2.4120037860@
chromium.org> wrote:

#55, I don't see why you can't just use CSS to fully-support the standard.


### Comment 57 Deleted

 Cc: -jsc...@chromium.org
#57 ah I see, you need the editor. If it was just about meaning, CSS could
still do that, but yeah you need native support for a MathML editor

 Labels: -Webkit-Specific -mstone-X -Reported-To-WebKit
eae@ We're trying to understand the plan for all top-starred bugs.  When you say "done in a maintainable way", are you implying that this is perhaps blocked on LayoutNG (or maybe custom layout)?

I'm just hoping that we can mark this bug blocked on some other work and set a Next-Action date for when we should check back in on that work.

 Blockedon: 591099 726125
We (layout team and igalia) have a tentative plan to build a MathML implementation on top of LayoutNG and Custom Layout. I've marked this as blocked on CSS Custom Layout and LayoutNG.

 NextAction: 2017-09-30
Great, thanks!  I know LayoutNG is a big project, so setting next-action to the end of Q3 to trigger check-in for Q4.

The NextAction date has arrived: 2017-09-30